Lore talk:Eternal Champion

Start of the game and Symachus death

In vol 5 of Lore:The Real Barenziah, v 5 and vol 3 Lore:Biography of Queen Barenziah it is mentioned that she helped free the Eternal Champion after Symachus died .That would mean it supposedly happened in 391 or even 396 (according to the third pocket guide) which would contradict the ingame start year that is always 389.That would mean the quest took only 8 or even just 3 years.--217.244.69.107 20:16, 15 August 2019 (UTC)

Eternal Champion's class

I know this might not be added to the page but wanted to write this anyway. Can we assume that the champion was a batlemage? Ria Silmane was Tharn's apprentice and she tutors the champion. Furthermore, mage classes start with a dagger and the intro text states Talin taking out his dagger. TheSeldomConsitentEditor (talk) 14:20, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

Insufficient source for obtaining artefacts

I cannot find any source for the champion collecting artefacts, the link just says events of arena but it is optional to pursue the artefacts. TheSeldomConsitentEditor (talk) 14:29, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

I restored your edit with a fix for the error. The whole area of canonical Hero deeds is a sort of gray area on the wiki, I brought it up on the community portal a while back and there wasn't really a consensus. One of the things I brought up in that discussion was how bloated individual lorepages would be for the Heroes, as it would be notable to describe each and every one of their godly artifacts. That point was never addressed by the opposition so its inconclusive exactly what the wiki's stance is on it. On one hand, most of the artifact pages have in their history that the Nerevarine, Last Dragonborn, Hero of Kvatch, etc. claimed them. On the other hand, it is not so for their respective pages (or entries on Lore:Hero) This page being the sole exception to that is, in my opinion, a poor precedent as it doesn't accurately reflect what has been exhibited in the rest of the wiki, thus my reverting. Mindtrait0r (talk) 18:48, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

Childhood home

A picture has the caption underneath stating it is the childhood home of the eternal champion, what is the source of this?TheSeldomConsitentEditor (talk) 01:31, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

This is the background image seen during the character creation sequence where you answer a bunch of questions based on the Champion's upbringing. --Rezalon (talk) 01:35, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

I am well aware but can this not just be some home? TheSeldomConsitentEditor (talk) 03:51, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

Why would it be just some random home if not the Eternal Champion's before the events of the game? --Rezalon (talk) 04:08, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

Maybe just some background image to add to the atmosphere? 80.60.179.34 04:32, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

I've always thought of it as the EC's home, too, but isn't it original research? Even if it were safe to assume that the image is of something in the class quiz, there are multiple buildings mentioned there that it could be; how do we know it's not the friend's home? And if we accept it on this page, consider that the same image is used in Daggerfall's class quiz. Would we then be forced to conclude that the Agent and EC lived together? Boustrophedon (talk) 14:53, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

The Daggerfall character creation scenario reuses Arena's, and its scenarios even contradict already established lore (such as the Agent's birth year), so I think it's safe to say it has no bearing on Daggerfall's PC. --Rezalon (talk) 21:03, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

Name of Eternal Champion

Hi, I'm just curious about why UESP has settled on the name 'Talin' for the Eternal Champion just because of some screenshots and an Introduction, found in the Arena Player's Guide even though Bethesda once released a statement saying "only things that have been published in Elder Scrolls games should be considered official lore". (note the statement said games not books like guidebooks). Even the Talin lore article notes "The use of the name in these screenshots may just have been presented as an example identity, as several other names were also featured in other screenshots. Regardless, it later became a policy of Bethesda to avoid canonizing the identities of player characters (including the Eternal Champion), so as to not cheapen the player's own personal experiences in the games." So with that said, why is UESP using 'Talin' as the 'official' name of the Eternal Champion, not taking the random screenshots and intro with a grain of salt and ignoring Bethesda's policy of providing the player with creative freedom regarding character creation? -- --KevinM^(talk) 20:23, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

During an interview in 2019, when asked about fan theories, Todd gave a list on what one should prioritise as canon over other sources:

1: In-game events viewed through the eyes of the player

2: A book published in-universe that can be read inside the game

3: An official work published outside of the game (examples given include the game manual and the official cookbook)

As the game manuals fall into what is considered canon, it is a definitive source of information. As it is the only source of information regarding who the Eternal Champion is, and is not contradicted or retconned in any other canonical Elder Scrolls works, it is reasonable to assume this is indeed the Eternal Champion's identity. Whilst one can argue that the player's actions in the game take precedent over what's mentioned in the manual, these are subjective and unique to each and every player's unique playthrough, whereas the manual states an objective, set in stone truth.--Rezalon (talk) 06:08, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

I have another question. In the notes section it says "The race of the hero is never canonically confirmed and ultimately player determined. A pre-release screenshot depicts Talin as a Breton." Since the Arena Player's Guide has canonical info and confirms both the name and gender of the Eternal Champion, shouldn't the screenshot (featured in the gallery section) depicting Talin as a Breton count as canonical information, confirming his race, since it shows his canonical name and appearance (for both gender and race)? --KevinM^(talk) 01:55, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

I'm not sure where the screenshot comes from, but assuming it doesn't come from the manual, then I think the screenshot would fall outside of what constitutes as definitive lore. For example, so far the canonicity of the official Bethesda tweets depicting the heroes has been a topic of debate for a long time in Lore talk:Hero, so if they are dubious enough for debate then the screenshot would probably be too unauthoritative to confirm Talin's race outside of the notes section. BananaKing5 (talk) 03:55, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Typically pre-release content isn't treated as canon since it does not always represent the final product (see Oblivion's trailer with the Bruma arena). --Rezalon (talk) 06:06, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Arena Screenshots